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 Post subject: History of Islam : Golden Age to Dark Ages - whose fault?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:57 pm 
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The Golden Age versus the Dark Age

Quote:
Raja Petra Kamarudin

Saturday, 24 October 2009

An Islamic administration must be fair in all matters, says Dr M.

[Mahathir] said : said Islamic countries and Islam will only be respected if they were progressive, like in the Golden Age of Islam.

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The Golden Age of Islam began to decline when the religionists started to oppose the Rulers who they viewed as too ‘Secular’. The religionists wanted more Islamisation and less ‘infidel’ influence. In other words, if it came from the non-Muslims, it must be rejected as un-Islamic.

But after the religionists got their way and the doors to science, medicine, engineering, architecture, and whatnot were closed, the Golden Age of Islam ended and the Muslim world went into reverse while the West went through one period of ‘revolution’ after another until it came to where it is today.

No, this is not Islam’s fault. Islam is not to be blamed. Those to be blamed are the religionists who wanted to interpret Islam in a very narrow manner and close the Muslim world to what they viewed as un-Islamic influence. It was almost like China’s isolation policy where ‘time stood still’ for hundreds of years.

Thus ended the Golden Age of Islam and the Muslim world went into the Dark Age.

Mahathir did not quite say this of course. He would never dare say this, as would be the case for many Muslims. But let us call a spade a spade. While the West was in the Dark Age the Muslim world was in the Golden Age. And then the West and the Muslim world suddenly traded places.

Study history. See what it was like during the Golden Age. Then see what it was like during the subsequent Dark Age. Spot the difference. And the reason this was so will become as clear as daylight.

To sum up, the Muslims screwed up and got left behind. And the sad thing is the Muslims are still screwing up. But then the Muslims blame the Jews and Christians for their current woes. What they fail to see is that it was because of the Jewish and Christian population that Islam enjoyed its Golden Age. But of course the Islamic history books list down all the great minds of the Muslims of the Golden Age of Islam while conveniently leaving out the role of the Jews and Christians and even the Chinese.

Mahathir told only part of the story. But while he is not wrong in his views there is more he did not tell or did not dare tell. But what must be said must be said. I just hope the Muslims will realise that it was not the enemies of Islam who sent the Muslim nations back into the Dark Age but the Muslims themselves. The Muslims are that enemy.


Extracts from : http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/28068/84/


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 Post subject: Re: History of Islam : Golden Age to Dark Ages - whose fault?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:36 pm 
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Mahathir of Malaysia? A loser who had led his country to ruins. Those who believe that he has brought Malaysia into a developed stage must be still living under the coconut trees. Those are the corrupt cronies of his who have enriched themselves with kickbacks and belong to racist parties that formed his coalition government that favoured and still favours a racist discriminatory practice FOR the "Melayu" ("pendatangs" or immigrants or runaways from Indonesia). Mahathir the ex PM still holds some sways with those corrupt politicians holding power and the uneducated Melayus. Sad indeed, and this country called Malaysia will never advance beyond its present state when all the natural resources (especially from oil re: Petronas) are gone. Mahathir's views are good for local consumption only. Perhaps he may get some ears in the Middle East where illiteracy is high. He will never be like Lee Kuan Yew who can articulate and discuss intelligently and thus able to influence the educated and well informed. Do we ever hear Mahathir at a forum in the west with a well informed audience? Certainly not, my friend.

Well, I have digressed. Let's hear from a piece of news from a Muslim about Muslims.

We have a lot to learn

By Dr Faisal Al Qasim, Special to Gulf News
05 September 2009



Quote:
There is no doubting the fact that Arabs and Muslims are sadly the most regressive people in the world, according to the Human Development Reports supervised by renowned Muslim and Arab scholars, and released by the UN and other similar reports. In other words, the term 'Muslim' has been linked, in the minds of the people of the world, with violence, terrorism, anarchy, chaos, disturbances, famine, poverty and backwardness. There are of course certain exceptions to this rule, but not many.

Even Pakistan , a nuclear power, is at risk of becoming a failed state, due to poverty, corruption, internal fighting and political mismanagement. And when it comes to Turkey , seen as an exception in the Muslim world, the secularists there consider themselves closer to the West than to the Muslim world. They also ascribe the progress achieved by their country in many fields to a secular approach, rather than the influence of Islam. I have heard top Turkish scholars, thinkers and politicians say that they prefer to be at the rearguard of the Western world than at the vanguard of the Muslim world.

It goes without saying that some Arab countries exist in a less developed state politically, let alone scientifically or technologically.

Why are those who are supposed to be 'the best of all peoples', as revealed in the Quran, lagging behind? Why are the supposedly infidel people of the world making great progress in various fields, while the 'faithful' are lagging behind everybody else?

Ironically enough, a huge percentage of the Chinese people, whose number is approaching 1.5 billion, are atheists. But these non-believers have achieved the highest development rate the world over - it reached 13 per cent at one stage. Add to this the fact that these atheists have 'invaded' almost every house in the world with their products. A high-ranking Chinese official once bragged that, "It is China and not the United States of America that is invading the world". He challenged the Americans to get their products into a quarter of the houses entered by Chinese products. The official also bragged that the Chinese have 'invaded' the US itself. "Aren't the American flags fluttering over the White House made in China ?" he asked.

Experts predict that, in the near future, half of the products that will be sold in the world will be made by the Chinese. Even the Ramadan lambs that are slaughtered by Muslims in Cairo and other Muslim and Arab countries are raised in China . The prayer mats used by faithful Muslims the world over are made by Chinese non-believers, who only believe in doing their jobs in a very sincere and faithful manner. It goes without saying that all the little presents, such as rosaries and Islamic handicrafts, that the pilgrims take home with them after the pilgrimage season are made in China .

It is true that a Muslim country such as Malaysia has made great progress technologically, but some argue that were it not for the Chinese minority in that country, the Malaysians would not have been able to achieve what they have.

And if we consider the second-most progressive country in the world, India , we find that the majority of the people there revere cows. But that has not prevented them from competing with America in the computer industry, to the extent that the famous American writer Thomas Friedman fears that Silicon Valley will one day relocate to India.

In other words, the most progressive people in the world are non-believers by Islamic standards whereas we, Muslims, ironically waste most of our time classifying the peoples of the world into believers and non-believers, and fighting among ourselves over who is more 'faithful'.

I wish we spent more time learning from the non-believers, who produce most of the products we buy. If we had, we would probably be less regressive.

This is by no means a call for atheism - God forbid - but a suggestion that we better ourselves, as our great religion instructs us to do. The great Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) called upon us to seek knowledge - even in China.



Dr Faisal Al Qasim is a Syrian journalist based in Doha .

SMKA Zaidi


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 Post subject: LKY created golden age for Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:23 am 
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Lee Kuan Yew is credited more for his past than the present or future. His knowledge and brilliant thinking is hard to match by other world leaders. However, LKY has also made bloopers - more for insensitive remarks than factual gaffes. There's much that Mahathir or any Malaysian leader could learn from its southern neighbour but unfortunately, they are like adolescents who think they know better and would confront head on than to humbly seek the advice of a wise man.


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 Post subject: Re: History of Islam : Golden Age to Dark Ages - whose fault?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:47 pm 
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The West has to realise that Islam is not just a religion but a political party with "Allah/Koran" as the party symbols. Followers will always want to undermine the progress of the west and other progressive nations. NO matter how educated the followers are, their ultimate aim is to destroy the infidels. The latest incident involved a US Army Muslim major killing 12 US soldiers in Fort Hood, Texas. Excuses were made that he did not want to be deployed to Iraq but the underlying belief was that he wanted to commit suicide like those suicide bombers (the jihadists) in Middle East. Muslim followers always believe that the solution to this world is the annihilation of the infidels and the establishment of a Caliphate. For whatever reasons, followers of the Abrahamic faith re the Book (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) do not allow freedom for their followers. Their dualistic approach i.e. you are either with me or against me, rings loud and clear and bloody....in North Africa, Asia, Europe and Latin America.


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 Post subject: Re: History of Islam : Golden Age to Dark Ages - whose fault?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:36 am 
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Golden Age does not last eternally and would not be revived by force, intimidation and coercion. If followers of a religion do not keep up with the times, the faith would be rendered irrelevant. Dogma and intolerence would hinder people of various backgrounds, beliefs and creeds to live harmoniously. Mixing politics with religion, especially superstitions and exclusiveness, are ingredients for potential conflict and clashes. Religion should be kept out of politics and power. Secular administration should offer protection to all citizens without favouritism or discrimination based on beliefs or ethnicity.


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 Post subject: Re: History of Islam : Golden Age to Dark Ages - whose fault?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Smalltok:
Quote:
For whatever reasons, followers of the Abrahamic faith re the Book (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) do not allow freedom for their followers. Their dualistic approach i.e. you are either with me or against me, rings loud and clear and bloody....in North Africa, Asia, Europe and Latin America.


Orange Blossom:
Quote:
Religion should be kept out of politics and power. Secular administration should offer protection to all citizens without favouritism or discrimination based on beliefs or ethnicity.


Orange Blossom must realize that all western nations including NZ and Australia have their constitutions and legal codes written with the Bible in mind. Thus there is no way for any citizen not subjected to moral codes as described in the Book. When the "moral majority" controls the governing, as in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and in mostly Islamic countries with Sharia laws, then there is no protection for someone who does not adhere to such beliefs. So either you are with them or against them...as Smalltok has pointed out. The same occurs in the west except that in the name of "democracy and human rights", those dissenters are tolerated.

In eastern philosophy (Hinduism and Buddhism), where individualism is much tolerated as one pursues one's enlightenment. But with western ideas based on the Book, coming into contacts with Oriental societies, conflicts begin to arise. Wars had been fought and countless people had died. Many indigenous societies like the Malays and Indonesians, begin to question their own cultural values as they become more indulging in "foreign ideas" as revealed in the Book namely the Koran. "Individualism" has given way to "herd mentalities" where the society is now governed by the Book. Individual Malay or Indonesian then, did not have the pleasure of absorbing the contents of the Book as his/her conversion followed that of his/her ruler. So it was a mass conversion. Ethnic groups like the Chinese and Indians, in Malaysia especially, that still pursue enlightenment through individual indulgence, are frowned upon and very much persecuted. Their holy places have been subjected to harassment, vandalism and demolition.


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 Post subject: Re: History of Islam : Golden Age to Dark Ages - whose fault?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:37 am 
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Yes, I do realize that constitutions in most western countries were written with the Bible in mind but not exclusively. These "moral values" are universal and most citizens do not have quarrel except in a very small number of controversial cases and judgement. Minority rights are protected at least on paper.

There are some similarities between democratic ideals and ancient oriental philosophy in the ideals of individualism. Eastern philosophies and religions are gaining popularity in the western world. Buddhism is the fastest growing religion in Australia even though the numbers are still small compared to Catholic and Christian faiths. On the other hand, Christian organisations are aggressively gaining strength in many East and Southeast Asian countries in the last decade, especially with many highly educated joining the congregations of various denominations.

Religion becomes a dangerous force when it is exploited for self serving interest. The Malays in power have selected trappings of western laws but suppressed other areas that might undermine their dominance.


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 Post subject: Religious boundaries
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:39 am 
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There are times when religious fanatics may cross the line and interfere in secular areas to the unhappiness of other religious groups or individuals.

http://www.oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/rise-of-religious-fervour-in-asia-singapore-s-concerns-t2939.html


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